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Baldur's Gate 2 No-Reload Challenge


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#13801
Alesia_BH

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Btw. Thanks for offering to help! You're super awesome Aasim!

 

I'll let you know if I decided to go ahead with the GDB resistant ATweaks fiends approach. Let me exhaust alternatives first.

 

Best,

 

A.



#13802
Aasim

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Ok, as I said, making the mod that alters levels is really no more than 5 min of my time; provided  I have their resource names - so if you need it's not a problem.

 aTweaks demons are indeed "nerfed" compared to SCS ones, that's why I keep their SCS stats intact (I also allow gating, if only since it makes me feel like a child opening a Kinder Surprise egg - what did I get this time? :P ).

Then again, demons, Tanova and/or Irenci in Hell ended virtually all my runs so that may not be so great to use.  



#13803
Serg BlackStrider

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Keep in mind the "SCS + aTweaks solution" isn't as fantastic as it looks. aTweaks thrives on PnP abilities and scores, SCS thrives on sheer power of high stat numbers. Combining both leads to some odd results like this here. (scroll down to Balor battle).

I'm a bit confused here - if you don't alter Fiends stats in your setup (~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #153 // PnP Fiends -> Give aTweaks scripts to all fiends but do not alter statistics) why do you think Alu-Fiends should look like this:

 

Spoiler
 
as aTweaks readme states them? I think, they should have different (SCS) stats and abilities, no? And SCS readme says they have only Charm at will and that's it. That's one of the reasons I like aTweaks Fiends - more variety of abilities they have and thorough description of those in readme..


#13804
Alesia_BH

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Ok, as I said, making the mod that alters levels is really no more than 5 min of my time; provided  I have their resource names - so if you need it's not a problem.

 

 

Noted. Thanks again!

 

 

 aTweaks demons are indeed "nerfed" compared to SCS ones, that's why I keep their SCS stats intact (I also allow gating, if only since it makes me feel like a child opening a Kinder Surprise egg - what did I get this time?  :P )... that may not be so great to use.  

 

 

I agree: that setup isn't balanced for no reload play, in my estimation- based on what I've seen in your runs, at least

 

Again, here are the options that make sense to me:

 

1) Straight SCS Fiends (using ATweaks for other improvements)

2) Straight ATweaks fiends, sans Gating, with GDB resistance patch

3) ATweaks fiends, with SCS stats, sans Gating

4) Straight ATweaks fiends, with Gating, no GDB resistance patch

 

I think you should try 4: you could keep the ATweaks fiends -and Gating- while having a means of mitigating the risk of being overwhelmed: GDB.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13805
Alesia_BH

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I think, they should have different (SCS) stats and abilities, no? 

 

When Aasim said "should" he meant that they would look like that if he used the option you and I use: Mod Added Fiends Also Affected.

 

They didn't look like that because he selected the ATweaks fiends + SCS stats option.


 And SCS readme says they have only Charm at will and that's it. That's one of the reasons I like aTweaks Fiends - more variety of abilities they have.

 

 

The SCS Alu-Fiend have more than charm at will. They use Mirror Image and Secret Word amongst other spells. The Read Me is incomplete here.

 

The SCS fiends have a respectable array of abilities. They work. 

 

The ATweaks fiends are more stylish. They're cooler.

 

Best,

 

A


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#13806
Aasim

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I'm a bit confused here - if you don't alter Fiends stats in your setup (~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #153 // PnP Fiends -> Give aTweaks scripts to all fiends but do not alter statistics) why do you think Alu-Fiends should look like this:

I tought I'd only get + 50% HP on them; while keeping THAC0/ability scores as they are in PnP. As it turned out, SCS isn't too concerned about it. :) Basically, I should have read about how "not alter stats" work, rather than assuming I only get +50% HP demons.

I didn't actually notice such great discrepancies in any demon apart Alu-fiend, which is hugely buffed by SCS. (usually, the difference isn't as drastic. PnP Balor has 104 HP, in my install it ranges from 180-230; Marilith is 96 in PnP/150 on my install, Glabrezu 80/ends with 120 etc).  Roughly ends up being what I want and expect. (Balors get 100% boost; but I can live with that).

 Alu-Fiends 400% of PnP value is waaaay too much, even for SCS. Simply didn't expect such difference.

 

 

The SCS Alu-Fiend have more than charm at will. They use Mirror Image and Secret Word amongst other spells. The Read Me is incomplete here.

 

The SCS fiends have a respectable array of abilities. They work. 

 

The ATweaks fiends are more stylish. They're cooler.

Pretty much this. I can imagine a SCS Alu-Fiend being very troublesome creature en-massed in Ascension. Likewise, if I use Revisions I generally avoid aTweaks with it - SR does a fine job with demons as well (similar to SCS, a bit harder due to sheer HP ammount  and massive save penalties involved). 

Apart Balors, SCS demons are potentially harder; especially on the casters.

Balor's no save instachunk alone tips the scales to aTweaks probably, considering the no-reload nature.

 

Anyways, we should stay on topic.


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#13807
Alesia_BH

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Anyways, we should stay on topic.

 

Agreed.

 

I do have one more install related quest. I'd appreciate help on this.

 

Can anyone comment on Ascenion Irenicus's behavior in SCS v30? Does he avoid using L9s and HLAs? Is this intended? A local bug? An EE specific issue? A general issue? I'm seeing cagey behavior and lots of L8-L5s but no L9s and HLAs.

 

Best,

 

A.



#13808
Alesia_BH

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@Serg. On EEv30 Ascension. I've worked through the Jonicus fight, the Demon Battle, and the Final Confrontation, taking a casual tester approach, rather than a serious player approach. On balance, it looks great, actually. The only problem is Irenicus:

  • He won't use HLAs or L9 spells- even with HLAs as innate (Sendai and Abazigal will)
  • He sometimes stands around doing nothing even against an unprotected PC
  • He drops a Robe of Vecna and a Life-Stealer dagger.

The Robe of Vecna drop has to be wrong. I have serious doubts about the rest.

 

Peeking through the files, I found: DW#ASC_NEW_FINIREN. 

 

Maybe new isn't improved in this case? Maybe I'm getting something other than DW#ASC_NEW_FINIREN at the Throne? Or did David make a considered decision to nerf Jon and introduce the mariliths? With the mariliths, the fight is a blast- even if Jon is behaving out of character. Was this intentional? It's possible, I guess, but I have my doubts. I smell bug. If so, a local issue? A BP specific issue? An EE specific issue?  A general v30 issue? 

 

Regardless of intent, with Jon tripping and the mariliths removed, the fight is not up to par, sadly. Leaving the mariliths in is an acceptable temporary workaround, I suppose, but I'd prefer to have a proper Jonicus. 

 

Aside from Jonicus, v30 EE BP Ascension looks surprisingly awesome. v30 made some significant improvements. Notably, Abazigal's script is much better: he fully leverages his mage levels now. I can't comment on the tougher battles series yet, but I like what I'm seeing at the Throne.

 

As for EE, in my test runs, the fights were smooth, fast, and stable- far better than I've ever experienced in any Classic setup. I'm impressed.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may be an EE convert. I need to do more testing.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13809
Serg BlackStrider

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@Alesia: noted, thanks again!



#13810
Alesia_BH

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@Serg. A further footnote. I did finally see an Improved Alacrity out of Jonicus after about a dozen trials. Still no other HLAs. Still no L9s, other than his opening Chain. He doesn't look right.

 

During those trials, I also observed strange behavior in relation to spell effects, particularly those of AoE spells. They were not affecting the PC, even in situations where they clearly should. This is a fatal flaw- one that makes the install unusable. It's the type of thing that I feared I might encounter in EE. I see more promise in EE than I had expected, given the smoothness and stability I've observed in heavy Ascension combat, but I also have renewed concerns that EE may not be suitable for serious play.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13811
Guest_GrimJim_*

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I like that Trigger/Contingency combo. Arcadia used something similar, although she typically went Trigger: ProMW/SI:A/SI:D Contingency- Improved Invisibility, with RoAC II having been cast pre-battle. The logic there being that she'd have full coverage even if there was a delay in the Contingency.
 
I'm leaning towards enabling sorcerers to place Spell Immunities in Triggers and Contingencies. In the past I've been inclined to treat that inability as a class disadvantage, rather than something to be modded around. It helps rebalance mages relative to sorcerers. I'm over that now though. It's time to tweak.
 
Great to have you back Grim Jim! Good hunting!
 
Best,
 
A.

Thanks. For whatever reason, I decided to play that fight "as intended" and not really buff until the dialogue said a fight was coming. I couldn't remember if the cutscene would remove Jim's invisibility so I played it safe.
 

@Grim Jim. While testing my EEv30 SCS-Ascension setup with my F/M Arcadia, I saw a Fallen Solar open with Mordy D on two occasions. Watch out for that. It's a low probability event, but it pins the suck-o-meter when it happens. Have a contingency plan.

I hadn't seen that before so it's good to know that it's a possibility. 
 

@SCS v30/Ascension users. Do you see L9 spells and HLAs from Ascension Irenicus? I observed them regularly in Classic v15, but I haven't observed them in EE v30. I'm assuming this is a script bug, but I'd like to know whether it is local or general.

I don't recall seeing him use L9s or HLAs, but then again my strategy in that fight is to be extremely aggressive so I don't recall seeing him use much of anything. 

@Grim Jim. Can you recommend a simple way to preserve the Mariliths in the opening Irenicus battle, while removing them from the insane fight with Mel and the 5? Separate creatures and ancillary editing, I would guess?

I have an idea on how to do this but I don't want to mess with my install to test it until Jim's run is finished. If you don't mind running untested code, try this: open up finsol04.bcs and instead of deleting the block I mentioned before, replace it with this:
Spoiler


#13812
Jabberwock

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Alesia for what it's worth I am playing SCS v30 bg2EE with BP Ascension and everything has been pretty great. I needed two patches which are on the beamdog forums, one to fix slayer -> human otherwise charname will keep taking magic damage and one that said it fixed something related to the pools at the throne but I don't know what.

 

Haven't spent much time in ToB though.


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#13813
Alesia_BH

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Alesia for what it's worth I am playing SCS v30 bg2EE with BP Ascension and everything has been pretty great. 

 

Thanks for letting me know.

 

And to be clear: My comments do not cast doubt on any current EE Ascension runs nor on any past EE Ascension runs. I trust our players. I trust both in their integrity and in their powers of observation. 

 

Have you fought Jon at the Throne? Can you tell me about your experience with him. I'd like to know whether others have seen what I'm seeing, especially in relation to spell choice. 

 

In one test -which I replicated- I control Y-ed all of the foes other than Jon and had an unbuffed Arcadia stand in front of him, motionless. Between bad scripting and spell effect related bugs (damage not applied, no MR message), he was unable to seriously injure her. It was clearly broken. Probably on a scripting level, and certainly on an engine mechanic level.

 

Anyhoo. I suppose I should head over to the EE forums and snoop around there. I have a terrible habit of ignoring the G3 and Beamdog forums and then just spamming our thread with my issues. I should probably stop that.

 

Best,

 

A.

 

Btw. I feel I should add that my BG1 EE experiences have been good so far. As for the problems I've encountered in EE2, they may be local.


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#13814
Aasim

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I've tried Irenicus in Ascension. He does indeed have a bad script (SI:Div, SImmys, Sunfire/Fireballs, Breach). I'll report in on SCS forum. Oddly, he doesn't drop Vecna or dagger (or anything else) on my install; even if NI shows he does have a droppable Vecna robe.

 

Edit:

Likewise, his spells have no damage effect what so ever. Incredible.


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#13815
Alesia_BH

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I've tried Irenicus in Ascension. He does indeed have a bad script (SI:Div, SImmys, Sunfire/Fireballs, Breach). 

 

Thanks for confirming.

 


 Oddly, he doesn't drop Vecna or dagger (or anything else) on my install; even if NI shows he does have a droppable Vecna robe.

 

I don't believe he dropped one in my Classic install. He does so consistently in the BP EE setup. It could be a BP thing. I don't know.

 


 

Likewise, his spells have no damage effect what so ever. Incredible.

 

It's really weird, isn't it? I couldn't believe it.

 

His single target damage spells worked (magic missiles) but his AoE damage stuff didn't. His AoE disablers did not force rolls. PW:B had no effect.

 

Were your observations made in an EE or Classic install?

 

Best,

 

A.



#13816
Serg BlackStrider

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@Serg. A further footnote. I did finally see an Improved Alacrity out of Jonicus after about a dozen trials. Still no other HLAs. Still no L9s, other than his opening Chain. He doesn't look right.

 

During those trials, I also observed strange behavior in relation to spell effects, particularly those of AoE spells. They were not affecting the PC, even in situations where they clearly should. This is a fatal flaw- one that makes the install unusable. It's the type of thing that I feared I might encounter in EE. I see more promise in EE than I had expected, given the smoothness and stability I've observed in heavy Ascension combat, but I also have renewed concerns that EE may not be suitable for serious play.

 

 

I've tried Irenicus in Ascension. He does indeed have a bad script (SI:Div, SImmys, Sunfire/Fireballs, Breach). I'll report in on SCS forum. Oddly, he doesn't drop Vecna or dagger (or anything else) on my install; even if NI shows he does have a droppable Vecna robe.

 

Edit:

Likewise, his spells have no damage effect what so ever. Incredible.

Well, seems *If you have breaddon't look for cake...* and I should stick with my current setup for the time being.


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#13817
Alesia_BH

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Well, seems *If you have breaddon't look for cake...* and I should stick with my current setup for the time being.

 

Agreed.

 

I will say this though: there are some things in the v30 fight that were really cool. I loved the changes to Abazigal. 

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13818
Aasim

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Well, seems *If you have breaddon't look for cake...* and I should stick with my current setup for the time being.

Something like that....mind you, I have never seen anything like it; nor tought it possible. Cone of Cold/Sunfire w/o actual damage.

I was unable to find the error.

Fwiw, a fixed v28 does seem stable enough....and priests there would use Blade Barrier - they don't in v30; even if they have it memorized.



#13819
Alesia_BH

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I have never seen anything like it; nor tought it possible. Cone of Cold/Sunfire w/o actual damage.

I was unable to find the error.

 

Again, was this in an EE or Classic setup?

 

Best,

 

A.



#13820
Aasim

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Were your observations made in an EE or Classic install?

Sorry, missed this. Classic; clean Asc/BGT/SCS install.

I've had bad experience with anything BP related so I skip it. It alters far more than it should. Franky, I'm surprised a standalone Ascension hasn't been released for EE yet...



#13821
Alesia_BH

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Sorry, missed this. Classic; clean Asc/BGT/SCS install.

 

Thanks! I needed to know whether it was an EE issue or an SCS issue. 


 

I've had bad experience with anything BP related so I skip it.

 

 

I've never been a fan of BP either. It does, however, offer a way of running Ascension in EE. 

 

EE interests me because it promises a means of running recent versions of SCS without installing Windows.

 

I was really impressed with how smoothly EE ran Ascension: unexpectedly impressed.

 

 

Franky, I'm surprised a standalone Ascension hasn't been released for EE yet...

 

 

Someone is (or was) working on it. It's taking a long time.

 

There used to be a thread on it over at Beamdog. It was shutdown due to hostility.

 

Again, I was pleasantly surprised with what I observed at the Throne, save the Jonicus issues and those, apparently, are neither EE or BP specific. I'm willing to give it a try.

 

Best,

 

A.



#13822
Alesia_BH

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Another weird one observed in EE v30 (though certainly not as weird as the Jonicus stuff)

 

Kangaxx casts Comet at Arcadia. Arcadia is running Spell Turning.

 

Spoiler

 

Back at ya: Comets bounce off of Spell Turning. They do damage to the original target, but they also bounce. David's script assumes otherwise.

 

Spoiler

 

That should be easy to fix, I assume.

 

Best,

 

A.



#13823
Alesia_BH

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@Serg. Regarding HLAs as innates. I think Aasim nailed it: it reduces diversity in mage battles. Everybody drops a Planetar, dumps a Dragon's Breath, and then a Comet. I'm not a fan.

 

I'm inclined to skip that component. If I want to reduce the number of castings of each HLA available to my characters, I can always restrict myself to one casting of each per battle. I don't need to install the component to achieve that end.

 

Best,

 

A.


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#13824
Grond0

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Gate70/Grond0 multiplayer attempt 83 - (update 4)

Pasha, half-elf druid (Grond0) & Rholfre, half-elf dragon disciple (Gate70)

 

The previous session was a bit of a struggle, but today was something of a breeze.  Things started with a power upgrade for Rholfre thanks to acquiring the Robe of Vecna and she was soon casting away merrily.  The first targets were Mencar and his gang: Rholfre wondered whether her newly learned death spell would be effective against the familiar there - it was :).

Spoiler

 

At the Graveyard the tombs were cleared and various quests taken, including acquiring a ransom for a kidnap victim.

 

By this time we thought it was about time to return to the Druid Grove to seek new challenges for Rholfre.  After a few more rests the spirit appeared and it wasn't long before Pasha acquired a Golden Lion as a new friend.

Spoiler

 

At the de'Arnise Hold the death spell came into its own by decimating the troll population.  Most of the golems quickly fell to summons, though the iron golem's poison meant the duo had to do a bit of work to finish it off.  

Spoiler

More summons were produced for TorGal and should have been quite capable of defeating him and his giant trolls in fair combat - they didn't have much of a challenge left after the trolls evaporated in a death spell!  

Spoiler

In the EE Glaicas gives up when he sees you, but we couldn't be doing with that and a cloudkill from out of sight annoyed him into fighting.

Spoiler

 

Talking to Nalia got both characters to level 14.  Pasha used her new status to go and challenge a druid for the leadership of the Grove.  A creeping doom and a couple of insect plagues later there wasn't much left of the druid and he collapsed before Pasha had time to summon her full complement of helpers (or take a screenshot).


Stats:

Pasha, druid 14, 63 HPs (incl. 5 from Helm), 137 kills

Rholfre, dragon disciple 14, 64 HPs (incl. 5 from ioun stone), 305 kills, 1 death (+1 in BG1)


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#13825
Serg BlackStrider

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@Serg. Regarding HLAs as innates. I think Aasim nailed it: it reduces diversity in mage battles. Everybody drops a Planetar, dumps a Dragon's Breath, and then a Comet. I'm not a fan.

 

I'm inclined to skip that component. If I want to reduce the number of castings of each HLA available to my characters, I can always restrict myself to one casting of each per battle. I don't need to install the component to achieve that end.

I see. The reason I'm thinking of picking this option is that with full party o six I have way too little lvl 9 slots for both HLAs and normal lvl 9 spells. I agree this might not be an issue for solo/small parties.