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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran


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#351
corey_russell

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No reload challenge;

Does skipping DS (dragon spear) count as still doing the trilogy or do we need a new (assume foursome) list for people completing the set... BG, DS, BG2 and Tob?

The consensus was that Dragonspear is optional - in part because can't even play DS with the original game, requires EE. Thus, whether you do or don't do DS, but still beat Melissan, then would count for doing the Trilogy.


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#352
ussnorway

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After some more testing, the turn undead bug only lives in the "legarcy of bhall" difficulty... that is turn undead does NOT work at that level but does work on all levels below.
this is in both ds and bg2ee



#353
Grond0

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Are you sure that should be counted as a bug?  Turning of undead is level dependent and LoB considerably increases the effective level of opposition. Perhaps you now need to be level 20 to be able to turn a skeleton?


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#354
ussnorway

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The load screen says Occasionally stronger enemy units and makes no mention of turn undead not being allowed.

 

Test procedure;
Create a lawful good cleric … export her to the game character file.
After starting a new game with this same cleric have her summon her own skelly warrior and start doing turn undead.
On any level but legacy of Bhaal the skelly will be turned “run away or just collapse” … there is no way “within the stated rules” that a summoned skelly can be so high above the level of the character that summoned it so yes… under the rules as stated by their own press it is a bug.

 

In any event my point is just that turn undead does not work at that difficulty level and warn people to not expect it... if Beamdog wants to have level 55 dragons drop from the sky in the name of game balence then thats nothing to do with us but I'd like to be told about it before waisting my time playing their games.

 

 

lo-bhaal.png


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#355
Grond0

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The load screen says Occasionally stronger enemy units and makes no mention of turn undead not being allowed.

 

Test procedure;
Create a lawful good cleric … export her to the game character file.
After starting a new game with this same cleric have her summon her own skelly warrior and start doing turn undead.
On any level but legacy of Bhaal the skelly will be turned “run away or just collapse” … there is no way “within the stated rules” that a summoned skelly can be so high above the level of the character that summoned it so yes… under the rules as stated by their own press it is a bug.

 

In any event my point is just that turn undead does not work at that difficulty level and warn people to not expect it... if Beamdog wants to have level 55 dragons drop from the sky in the name of game balence then thats nothing to do with us but I'd like to be told about it before waisting my time playing their games.

I agree the description is incomplete, but summoned creatures also have additional HPs in LoB - so the failure of turn undead to work may still be level dependent.  Without wanting to defend them too much I think it would also be pretty hard for Beamdog to fully document all the implications of such a major change - many spells you might previously have relied on will no longer work in LoB for instance.


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#356
corey_russell

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The consensus was that Dragonspear is optional - in part because can't even play DS with the original game, requires EE. Thus, whether you do or don't do DS, but still beat Melissan, then would count for doing the Trilogy.

 

EVERYONE:

 

This answer, as well as mentioning Enhanced Edition should be in the rules (1st post of BG 2/ToB thread) - I have updated the 1st post in BG 2 thread to reflect that, since USSNorway's question will likely come up again if I don't put in the rules.



#357
Grond0

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Potential bug in EE with half-elf resistance to charm

 

Perhaps it's related to how the 30% immunity to charm spells for half-elves is implemented. As there is no such thing as X% immunity to effect Y the spell itself gives half-elves with 30% probability 100% immunity to charm effects for one second. Not sure what happens after this one second with immunities from other sources (like potion of clarity). Maybe they're lost as well? At least that could explain what has happened... your char got charmed (because he isn't immune anymore) but the icon is still there (as it's not touched by the 30% immunity implementation).

 

This could be tested by making a save after being (as a elf or half-elf, protected by potion of clarity) targeted by a dire charm spell and then checking the effects with EEKeeper - if the icon is there but the immunity effects are gone then it's a bug (but probably an unfixable one - at least a hardcoded one).

I restarted my beastmaster for a 4th attempt and got back to the Lighthouse - and was once more charmed there by the sirines.  I also then experimented with saves to confirm that this was a regular happening in the EE as opposed to just being a very unusual occurrence in the vanilla game that I hadn't remarked on before.  I haven't tested it exhaustively, but I did do several encounters using different tactics.  Reviewing saves at various points in EEKeeper showed the immunity to charm always in place.

 

I was never charmed by an individual sirine, but ones working together regularly did so - that does suggest that the intermittent half-elf resistance to charm noted by Dyara has been implemented in the EE in a way that actually causes all charm immunities to become intermittent and not just the half-elf one. 


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#358
corey_russell

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So Grond0, if I am playing EE and half-elf I need to be in a group (that way being charmed isn't the end). Good to know! Not that it helps a solo-er like you, sorry...


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#359
Dyara

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I've made some tests both in BGEE 1.3 and 2.2 and there was no problem with elves/half elves drinking a potion of clarity and becomming charmed afterwards. Especially my guess that the implementation of elven/half-elven 90%/30% immunity to charm spells kills the immunity from potion of clarity was just wrong (checked it with EEKeeper, the effects from potion were still there after being targeted by some dire charm spells) - at least in my tests.



#360
Grond0

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My impression is that you won't be able to find the flaw with EEKeeper - as noted above I also found the immunity was always correctly reported in EEKeeper (but that didn't prevent charming taking place regularly during combat).  I assume that what happens is that there is a timer applied during combat so that the immunity to charm is temporarily withdrawn at certain points during the combat - but you can't save during combat so you will never see that in EEKeeper as the immunity will reassert itself before you can save (you could set up a situation near the map edge to test it using the autosave, but I haven't tried doing that).

 

Edit: in a new run with a human rather than half-elf I've done a bit of testing to confirm that the immunity to charm works properly, i.e. it does appear to be the implementation of the half-elf that is the problem.


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#361
ussnorway

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a question of detail has come up... how much is too much?

 

there are players that have not played Dragon Spear and don't want to know spoilers but how much detail are we blocking;

  • that a battle happens at this location?
  • that the battle involves a boss that uses spells?
  • that the tatics they use are this and the counter for it is that?

I'm happy to put details in spoiler tags in order to avoid making problems for people that haven't played it yet but I also don't want to assume what should or should not be added so I'm asking the forum for some feedback please.



#362
Dyara

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As long as I haven't played it I just don't read posts about Dragonspear. So spoilers are not required in my case.



#363
Relay

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Quick question, Is spell interuption on 0 damage portion of tobex implemented in the newest BGEE update?



#364
corey_russell

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Relay, just wanted to let let you know I saw your question - I just don't know the answer. I know very little about EE really - haven't even completed one game yet in it.



#365
Grond0

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Quick question, Is spell interuption on 0 damage portion of tobex implemented in the newest BGEE update?

There is a component allowing for change in the spell failure mechanic - see page 41 of the BGEE release notes:

https://s3.amazonaws...Notes080616.pdf



#366
ussnorway

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Quick question, Is spell interuption on 0 damage portion of tobex implemented in the newest BGEE update?

 

zero.png



#367
Relay

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so if I'm reading the release notes right, they opened that option to be changed by a mod?



#368
Relay

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From the update notes

 

Spellcasting Failure

 

The way that spellcasters fail after taking damage has been externalized to CONCENTR.2da. By default, any damage a spellcaster takes will cause them to fail their spellcasting.

 

CHECK_MODE

0 Any damage

1 (1d20 + luck) vs. (spell level + damage taken)

2 (1d20 + Concentration ) vs. (15 + spell level)

 

Note from the Developers: This is inspired by a feature from ToBEx. Be aware that Baldur's Gate games have no Concentration skill; using that option will use a basic 1d20+luck formula for the caster's check.

 

I've been playing with these values, and if I'm reading it correctly it looks like with check mode 1, any damage over about 20 should be a guaranteed interruption?

from what I've noticed after trying them all, it seems far too difficult (or at least very random) to interrupt casting with anything but check mode 0... 

 

I feel like they completely missed the point of that engine change.