377 replies to this topic

[corey_russell]

Looking again at your post Corey I think I see a possible explanation.  The penalty to spells from a specialist is applied before the die roll is shown on the screen.  Therefore a save vs spells of 0 by your dwarf against a cast from an illusionist means he actually rolled a 2 on the saving throw, but that was adjusted to 0 before being compared against his required save (successful as that was also 0).  If no penalty was applied you would never have seen a save vs spell of 0 in the text (as the lowest possible die roll is 1).

 

Using the same test your dwarf should fail a saving throw with an initial roll of a 1 (adjusted to -1 by the penalty) - could you try a few more casts to check that happens?

Interesting. Okay, will keep trying then. I was wondering if I was misapplying the saving throw penalty. you are right he has two items that adjust his saving throw to 0. Which means if the penalty was applied then he rolled a 2, but then was adjusted to 0, which is good enough. I need a natural 1 roll. Will keep trying then.

[GrimJim]

Some more test results from a Fixpack + TobEx beta 0026 install:

1. TobEx does not fix the bug like I previously thought.
2. Whatever is going on is definitely an improper interaction between a creature's kit and the specialist save bonus/penalty. For example, when a shadow fiend has its kit set as TRUECLASS, your save vs. death needs to be 1 to always save against its paralyzing attack. When its kit is changed to NO_KIT, your save needs to -1.
3. Kitted fighters and rangers appear to benefit from this bug. They get the specialist save bonus against school-less spells and enemies get a save penalty against the on-hit effects of their weapons. I didn't test any other kits, so they may also be affected.

This is definitely an engine bug, so a complete fix would require an improvement to TobEx which is beyond what I'm capable of. In any case, the main takeaway is that if your save is 2 below what you would normally expect to need to guarantee a save, you should be fine.

[Alesia_BH]

Thanks, GrimJim! Awesome work!

 

Cheers,

 

A.

[Aasim]

Has anybody noticed Comet does double damage? Similar to Thaxy's level-draining breath/Draconis' breath, it seems to be hitting twice.

[Alesia_BH]

That's interesting, Aasim. Thanks for raising it. Can you specify your test conditions? The basis for your conclusion? Can anyone replicate?

Best,

A.

[Seraphim24]

The No Reload challenge eh... hrm... can't say I've ever tried that one, but I don't know, with this thread, maybe now is the time!

[Grond0]

The No Reload challenge eh... hrm... can't say I've ever tried that one, but I don't know, with this thread, maybe now is the time!

You would be very welcome - there's certainly no shortage of experience to draw on in the 30,000+ posts on the no-reload threads here .

[reianddad]

Hello

 

Currently i'm no reloading a solo sorcerer through BG2 (SCS, etc.......).

I'm having some problems protecting myself from chaos.

 

What are the options besides the different potions? As far as i know, none.

 

Well, spell immunity, spell deflection/turning etc. don't help, because chaos is an area of effect spell (at least scs mages - yuan ti to be more specific - are smart enough to "area target" my improved invisibel, spell immunity, spell deflecting, spell shielded, minor globed, all in all defensevely well protected lvl 13 sorcerer.

 

Any idea guys?

 

Thanks,

 

reianddad

[ussnorway]

move out of the effect area... thats not as "feel good" as having a doz potions | spells up to protect you but it does keep you alive!

[reianddad]

I was protected with spell immunity: enchantment. Long story short: i sought it didn't work properly, but truth to be told, the spell must have ran out (spell immunity: a very short duration; only 1 round/level) and i didn't catch to recast it, so i got caught.

 

But thank you,

 

reianddad

[Enuhal]

Hey everyone;

 

I have a question: Do you think it's okay to use the spirit animals a totemic druid can summon in BG1? Here's some context:

 

I've been playing some randomized party triology no-reload games, and while it's rare to roll druids with my randomization system, my most recent party includes a totemic druid. Now, the party is overall quite average, and the party composition is bad, but a totemic druid changes things: A spirit animal can solo the early game by itself. Now, the hardest part when it comes to playing a randomized party is that, early on, unless you are very lucky (which I am not), your characters are terrible at fighting - randomized proficiency points, terrible thac0 and very high armor class will do that. I feel like using the spirit animal would allow me to get around all of the restrictions the randomization process usually inflicts on my party - which is good, because it makes the early game less frustrating, but it also kind of ruins the  challenge (not that there aren't still plenty of ways to fail).

 

Totemic druids also happen to be my favorite class in BG2, so I'm somewhat torn - two previous randomized groups I've rolled up had totemic druids in them, and I simply deleted the games right away, since I thought using the spirit animals would be unfair, but having the class and not using its abilites would be pointless. Now that I've played a couple of more games and got two groups through most of BG1 and to TotSC content (where one PC died due to poor positioning and higher doppelgangers in Durlag's Tower, and one because I triggered a fireball trap I thought I had already disarmed on the Ice Island), I feel like the early game is getting tedious - lots of running away, shooting at monsters with ranged weapons (did I mention the terrible thac0?), not hitting anything unless you use command or sleep (though sleep is rare, since getting an arcane spellcaster requires some luck with my system, and the wand isn't cheap early on) - so I feel like using the spirit animal would allow me to "skip" the boring parts and focus on the harder, tactically challenging fights.

 

Any thoughts? I'd feel much better about playing (or not playing) with spirit animals if there is some kind of group consensus - is using spirit animals in BG1 in a randomized party no-reload game within the spirit of the challenge, or is it abusing an ability that was clearly meant for BG2 and is overpowered in BG1?

[corey_russell]

@Enuhal - I don't see a problem at all using spirit animals in BG 1, randomized parties or otherwise. I mean, in the original game, yes they had weaker summons, but I could summon like 15 skeletons with a single level 5 cleric if they had high enough wisdom and/or using the Ring of Holiness. Also, if you are doing a trilogy run, then spirit animals hardly make that a guarantee. I say go for it!

 

Also, I think balance issues go right out the window if you are using a randomized party with random stats. Meaning, you'll still have an uphill battle even with the spirit animals help.

 

And let's face it, when BG 1 was first developed, it wasn't developed with the BG 2 engine. But it's often played that way today. I mean, in a trilogy run, you have to have massive concentration and near flawless play to made a success - this overshadows any BG 1 imbalance issue that may or may not be in your game.

[Jianson]

@Enuhal: I'm with Corey but I have a recommendation.

 

 

I am currently playing a Totemic Druid in the no-reload challenge. Her stats are a 'best of 5 rolls, no adjusting' variant.

I played BG1 with EasyTutu and I used a component from Tutufix called 'Totemic Druid Spirit Summons are Balanced'.

(It needed some extra fixing (download and extract to Override folder after the tutufix component is installed) as well because the mod is otherwise faulty, resulting in no spirit animals at all...)

 

Once I got it fixed, I've enjoyed it a great deal, and I really recommend it. The summons are still pretty powerful but not as overpowered. No way they can solo any areas. A critical from a Gibberling can still kill the weakest versions of them, and they aren't immune to normal weapons.

 

Their power grow with the druid. Earliest (weakest) version is when the Druid is level 1-3. At level 4, they get their first upgrade and here is where the Spirit Bear first becomes eligible (only lion, snake and wolf at druid level 1-3). Next upgrade is at level 7 and the last is at level 10. The level 10 versions are exactly as how they are in BG2.

[Enuhal]

Thanks for your opinions

 

@Jianson: I've been following parts of your run, and I'm very interested to see how it will turn out. It would be nice to finally add a second druid to the Hall of Heroes!

When it comes to mods, I am playing with BGT, not Tutu, and I don't really wish to change my mod setup... though I like the idea in general.

 

I've decided to go ahead and start playing with the party I rolled up (especially since "skipping" a randomized no-reload attempt with a party you don't like feels cheap as well - if I were to start doing that, I could just reroll and reroll until luck provided me with a great group). I'll see how overpowered the spirit animals actually are, and if things are getting too ridiculous, I might stop using them. However, since I've already demonstrated to myself that getting past the frustrating early levels is generally quite possible with the average randomized party (shooting and running, shooting and running, if running isn't an option using command or sleep (you can always buy the wand from High Hedge)), I don't feel too bad about speeding along the process, since there don't seem to be any general objections here.

 

Enuhal

[Aasim]

I'm not interested in stealing anything from the merchant window (which, again, is not possible at Ribald's shop), I just want to steal the ring he has on his person. And you don't need 240 points to do that - I do it everytime I play BG2, and usually with 100-200 points. This is the first time I've failed in years, though I propably used one less master thievery potion than usual. I just wanted to know if someone knows if there's a set point value where it's safe (or only a 1% failure chance left) to steal the ring from Ribald and the bottle from the Genie in trademeet. Not really the thread for this discussion, though.

There is a value, and it depends on character and on inventory slot of the item you're trying to steal. The base value is equal to the NPC's Pick Pockets value - that's why stealing from thieves is generally harder (in Ribald's case, it's probably 0 since he's a f-m).

The only thing I found about item placement is a post on Steam - these are minimum values you need to succeed:

 

General Inventory: 10
Quick Items: 50
Ammunition: 50
Rings: 60
Amulet, Cloak, Gauntlet, Belt: 80

Weapons: 95

 

So, to steal an equipped ring, you'd need min 60 to be succesfull. To have a 100% chance, I reckon you'd need this value x2 (120 per ring).

[corey_russell]

Thanks for your opinions

 

@Jianson: I've been following parts of your run, and I'm very interested to see how it will turn out. It would be nice to finally add a second druid to the Hall of Heroes!

When it comes to mods, I am playing with BGT, not Tutu, and I don't really wish to change my mod setup... though I like the idea in general.

 

I've decided to go ahead and start playing with the party I rolled up (especially since "skipping" a randomized no-reload attempt with a party you don't like feels cheap as well - if I were to start doing that, I could just reroll and reroll until luck provided me with a great group). I'll see how overpowered the spirit animals actually are, and if things are getting too ridiculous, I might stop using them. However, since I've already demonstrated to myself that getting past the frustrating early levels is generally quite possible with the average randomized party (shooting and running, shooting and running, if running isn't an option using command or sleep (you can always buy the wand from High Hedge)), I don't feel too bad about speeding along the process, since there don't seem to be any general objections here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Enuhal - you not counting Lotan? He is in the Hall of Heroes and he was a druid.

[corey_russell]

Thanks for that useful information Aasim!

[ussnorway]

quick question;

 

Katarina is a elf fighter-mage with 15 con and a starting health of 8 hit points... she cast the spell to collect her pet cat and now has 30 hit points.

 

I assume a bug but what should her total hit points be?

[corey_russell]

USSNorway - well, if I remember right, a normal familiar in BG 2 will have 24 HP (before you get to ToB) - in which case the mage would get 12 HP in BG 2. But with EasyTutu, they 1/2 that so when I use a familar in easytutu I get 6 HP - if you use something similar you should have 14 HP.

 

Corey

[Grond0]

USSNorway - well, if I remember right, a normal familiar in BG 2 will have 24 HP (before you get to ToB) - in which case the mage would get 12 HP in BG 2. But with EasyTutu, they 1/2 that so when I use a familar in easytutu I get 6 HP - if you use something similar you should have 14 HP.

The familiars in BGEE also have HPs halved compared to vanilla BG2, i.e. 12 HPs for all except the imp (which has 9).

[ussnorway]

The legacy of bhaal difficulty states increased hit point of all encounters… looks like that includes my familiar but I don’t feel the need to edit all familiar files and the cat can keep her points in case that breaks something else.

All right so if we assume the cat should have 12 hit points for bgee then Katarina should get an extra 6 hit points for a total of (8+6=) 14?

[Enuhal]

Enuhal - you not counting Lotan? He is in the Hall of Heroes and he was a druid.

 

Sorry, I should have written "single class druid".

 

Enuhal

[Grond0]

The legacy of bhaal difficulty states increased hit point of all encounters… looks like that includes my familiar but I don’t feel the need to edit all familiar files and the cat can keep her points in case that breaks something else.

All right so if we assume the cat should have 12 hit points for bgee then Katarina should get an extra 6 hit points for a total of (8+6=) 14?

I remember reading that LoB increases HPs of summons as well as enemies - though not by as much.  I guess that's what's happened with the cat, but that would seem like an unintended consequence to me - perhaps Gate70 could confirm if it's been raised as a bug.

 

14 HPs would be right for first level.

[ussnorway]

Unlocking Durlag's Tower has more or less become my opening move and I wonder if anyone else has a standard start?

Start from Beregost, (recruit Kaigan if you want Shar-Teel) leave via the east boarder for the Temple map

Enter the temple – walk out the over side and proceed east again to unlock (and proceed to) Mutamin's Garden

I collect Shar-Teel (using Kaigan) then agree to help Korax find his food but the main point is to leave this map from the south boarder

 

Durlag's Tower

[ussnorway]

No reload challenge;

Does skipping DS (dragon spear) count as still doing the trilogy or do we need a new (assume foursome) list for people completing the set... BG, DS, BG2 and Tob?