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Baldur's Gate 2 No-Reload Challenge


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#11901
Alesia_BH

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This is yet another reason I was afraid to fail the rescue mission - I don't want to fight Adalon (and never fought her). I just can't justify that...

If memory not fails me, from previous Alesia's run follows that you are not forced to fight her - just kill the Drow war party guarding the Underdark exit or flee through them. Not sure if it true for all possible setups though.

 

I've also never fought Adalon. I've only completed the dragon egg quest once or twice.

 

In all the installs I've tried, the exit opens once I fail the dragon egg quest. If I haven't failed the dragon egg quest, the door is closed. l've never needed Adalon's rune note.

 

Best,

 

A. 


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#11902
corey_russell

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I've also never fought Adalon. I've only completed the dragon egg quest once or twice.

 

In all the installs I've tried, the exit opens once you fail the dragon egg quest. l've never needed Adalon's rune note.

 

Best,

 

A. 

Very interesting! I'll keep this in mind, perhaps it's the same for me then.


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#11903
Alesia_BH

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@Alesia, if you look at the map here, you'd go 1 - 2 - 3 - 12 - 10 - 7, steering clearing from the center.

 

Got it. That's basically what I thought. By "center" I meant the juncture between the path that leads to the center proper and the one that leads south/southwest to the mind flayers.

 

I've never tried that, actually. I've always feared that the hive mother would see me around 10, which would be dangerous, given the other beholders there. I'll try it with Aria. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

 

A.


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#11904
Serg BlackStrider

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I'm just curious if it possible to just steal Adalon's rune note (it's MISCCC.ITM in her inventory)... :huh: 


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#11905
Alesia_BH

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I'm just curious if it possible to just steal Adalon's rune note (it's MISCCC.ITM in her inventory)... :huh: 

 

Alora decided to hop-skip-to that one. She says no.

Screen%20Shot%202015-04-24%20at%202.06.0

 

 

Best,

 

A.


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#11906
Alesia_BH

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Aria, Half-Elven R/C: Final Update

 

I have bad news everyone: Aria is out of the challenge. Either she died semi-legitimately, or I need to retire her on account of bugs. In either case, her run has ended.

 

As most of you are aware, I had setup a new GoG install with SCS v 30. I loved SCS v30, but hated the GoG install, mostly because I couldn't take screen shots in full screen mode and consequently had to play in a tiny window. To get around that problem I tried once again to upgrade my old install, which has previously proved upgrade resistant. Each time I try to update it, strange things happen. I tried to upgrade it again, nonetheless, and when that apparently succeeded, I was so thrilled to be back in full screen mode that I was willing to try to work through obvious glitches.

 

The first thing I noticed was that Blade Barrier was damaging the PC, rather than enemies. Whenever Aria cast Blade Barrier and approached a foe she, Aria, had to save against her own Blade Barrier. If she failed her save she, Aria, would take damage. Weird, right? I fixed that issue but, naturally, it led me to wonder what other problems might emerge.

 

The incident which ended Aria's run occurred in the Umar portion of the Ranger questline. Aria was attempting to execute an insta-kill via Harm-> Staff of Thunder and Lightning, while running Protection from Lightning. The Harm landed, bringing Umar down to 1HP. But the follow up lightning bolt went perpendicular to its targeting line, bounced back, hit Aria, and did no damage to Umar- who was not running any electricity resistance spells, and as you can see, was not running spell turning of any kind (or so it seems).

Screen%20Shot%202015-04-24%20at%204.41.1

 

The lightning bolt did not damage Aria at first, but Umar, still at 1HP, and, uninjured by the lightning bolt, managed to get off a Breach, which took down Aria's Protection from Lightning.

Screen%20Shot%202015-04-24%20at%204.41.5

 

I'm not sure what happened here. One hypothesis is that something funky happened with the targeting/damage application. The other possibility is that Umar was actually running Spell Turning, but the animation was bugged. That's hard to reconcile with the fact that Umar was ultimately killed by the bolt but it's possible that the bolt bounced off Umar repeatedly, consumed her invisible Spell Turning, and then killed her. I can't really say. Either way, Aria's run is over. She's either deceased on account of a minor bug (animation issue), which to my mind wouldn't be egregious enough to warrant a reload, or the install is wonky enough to make continuation inadvisable. I very nearly made the latter call after seeing the Blade Barrier issue anyways. And Aria's run already feels weird to me on account of the script bugs I ran into earlier (ex- Faldorn).

 

Anyhoo. I'm not sure what's next for me. I really want to play with SCS v30, but I also really don't want to go back to windowed mode. I intend to try to resolve the full screen screenshot issue on the GoG install with help from the the GoG technical support forum. Failing that, I'll probably spend some time experimenting with/debugging my old install. Hopefully I'll find a solution.

 

Good hunting everyone! Hopefully I'll be back soon!

 

Best,

 

A. 

 

EDIT: I just did some testing with the Staff of Thunder and Lightning. It often misses its target and has a tendency to instead go at an angle perpendicular to its correct targeting line. That's pretty much exactly what I observed in the Umar case. That, apparently, was the issue. Here's a shot from the test session to illustrate. Aria targets the salamander standing in front of her. The bolt does not go toward the salamander and instead travels on a path roughly perpendicular to its targeting line. 

Screen%20Shot%202015-04-24%20at%206.06.4



#11907
Blackraven

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Ay Alesia, so it was a bug. Well in that case a reload would be completely reconcilable with the no-reload rules, but I understand your decision to withdraw Aria from the challenge. I'm sorry about it though.

Hopefully you can sort out your installation issues, and rejoin the challenge with a new (or old) character.



#11908
corey_russell

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I've seen similar lightning bolt behavior in vanilla play - Magicken in fact died to something similar (e.g., the bolt the wizard fired went perpendicular rather than "through" Magicken, thus Magicken got his 4 times quickly in succession). It does appear to be a bug, but also a bug that perhaps has always been in the BG 2 engine (BG 1 engine doesn't appear to have this problem). I think the real question is how does someone avoid this bug, or can you?


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#11909
Alesia_BH

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I've seen similar lightning bolt behavior in vanilla play - Magicken in fact died to something similar (e.g., the bolt the wizard fired went perpendicular rather than "through" Magicken, thus Magicken got his 4 times quickly in succession). It does appear to be a bug, but also a bug that perhaps has always been in the BG 2 engine (BG 1 engine doesn't appear to have this problem). I think the real question is how does someone avoid this bug, or can you?

 

I've never observed that behavior before, but it had occurred to me that it might not be something specific to my install, but rather a faulty engine mechanic that I wasn't aware of. I'm naturally suspicious of this install (because of my prior experience with upgrading it and the Blade Barrier issue) but I don't have grounds to rule out the possibility that the lightning bolt behavior is inherent to the engine under certain circumstances. I should try to replicate in my GoG install under the same conditions.

 

Where was Magicken when his incident happened? Was he in a narrow corridor like Aria was?

 

Best,

 

A. 



#11910
Blackraven

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Scintilla, Gnome Cleric/Illusionist, tenth BG2 update

Before seeking out Bodhi, Scintilla secured the Hammer of Thunderbolts under Sanctuary

Spoiler
and she slew the Shadow Dragon in the Umar Hills. She used a Project Image to lower the dragon's MR and to remove its spell protections. The real Scintilla finished the creature off with a Deva, Harm and Energy Blades.
Spoiler
(No screenshot capturing the kill, possibly because it came unexpectedly early.)

Thus Scintilla, had all the ingredients for the forging of Crom Faeyr, only to decide against it, on the doorstep of Cromwell's forge. (I love the idea of some melee power with FoA and Crom Faeyr plus IH and Cleric buffs, but Scintilla normally walks around with the SotM and often uses that weapon to dispel enemy protections. For that purpose relinquisihing the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and seeing her STR down to 12 again, would mean quite a sacrifice. I know there are STR belts, but Scintilla finds the defensive qualities of the BotIB rather comfortable to give up, and item switching a bit risky. Dear reader, any suggestions?)

Back to Bodhi's lair it was. She met five Paladins who helped her out at the entrance against a number of Vampires, though truth be told, they were of little use. (Some of them even got the 'weapon ineffective message'. And what was even more disappointing to Scintilla was that Eric Van Straaten left her, calling her a betrayer for injuring him, after he had set himself on fire with a Fireball.)

Spoiler
She pushed on though and found four of Aran Linvail's master thieves battling Vampires in a large conference room. Sctintilla shone with her Mace of Disruption, but the Thieves, especially Arkanis Gath, contributed meaningfully even if all four Thieves let themselves be distracted by the Vampires's Giant Rats a bit too often for Scintilla's taste.
Spoiler
When Arkanis and Scintilla had cleared the room they checked in an adjacent room, that had produced the clamor of battle before but that had gone silent. In it they found the corpses of Drizzt and his companions, and three or four more Vampires.
Spoiler
Downstairs the two faced an overwhelming force of Vampires and Grimwarders, led by Bodhi. Arkanis fell, a Deva didn't last either, and Scintilla retreated to rest.
Spoiler
When she returned, as buffed up as she thought possible (Stoneskin, PfE, PfFear, CC, Blur, MI, Barkskin, II, Fireshields, HP+RM+DUHM), she found Bodhi waiting for her; the other Vampires weren't in sight. The two battled for quite a while, until both were badly injured and a Vampire Mage came teleporting in to remove Scintilla's buffs. The Gnome was about to retreat, when Bodhi, too, seemed close to giving up.
Spoiler
She fully healed herself however, an idea that Scintilla mimicked as soon as she Sanctuaried her way to a small chamber and locked herself in (due to the vicinity of a Glabrezu she didn't feel like fighting without certain buffs).
Spoiler
In the chamber she slew a Vampire that had been invisible initially, and she summoned two Skeleton Warriors that dealt with the nearby Grimwarders.
Spoiler
A stray Fledgling Vampire helped her discover she could now turn and explode such creatures.
Spoiler
Two remaining Vampires (both Mage variants) were done in with Holy Smites, Aerial aid, SotM-dispels and the Upgraded MoD,
Spoiler
before Bodhi was engaged a second time. Scintilla had no more Fireshields but she still had defensive buffs (MI, Blur etc), a dosis of HP+RM+DUHM, and two Gaxx-Hastes and two normal Hastes. Unlike the first time, Scintilla punished her foe without taking much damage (if any) herself.
Spoiler
She slew Bodhi with a wooden stake and fetched a Lanthorn that should provide her access to Suldanessalar the city of the Elves she had met near the Underdark exit, and also the place where Irenicus was supposed to be found.


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#11911
corey_russell

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I've never observed that behavior before, but it had occurred to me that it might not be something specific to my install, but rather a faulty engine mechanic that I wasn't aware of. I'm naturally suspicious of this install (because of my prior experience with upgrading it and the Blade Barrier issue) but I don't have grounds to rule out the possibility that the lightning bolt behavior is inherent to the engine under certain circumstances. I should try to replicate in my GoG install under the same conditions.

 

Where was Magicken when his incident happened? Was he in a narrow corridor like Aria was?

 

Best,

 

A. 

He was in a no-name random ambush (a City Alley) - the mage was in the corner and Magicken moved to point blank range (e.g. melee range). Certainly wouldn't call that a narrow corridor, but the walls weren't far away either. There may have been a horse cart nearby, the bolt may have ricocheted off that.



#11912
Aasim

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The lightning bolt did not damage Aria at first, but Umar, still at 1HP, and, uninjured by the lightning bolt, managed to get off a Breach, which took down Aria's Protection from Lightning.

 

 

I'm not sure what happened here. One hypothesis is that something funky happened with the targeting/damage application. The other possibility is that Umar was actually running Spell Turning, but the animation was bugged. That's hard to reconcile with the fact that Umar was ultimately killed by the bolt but it's possible that the bolt bounced off Umar repeatedly, consumed her invisible Spell Turning, and then killed her. I can't really say. Either way, Aria's run is over. She's either deceased on account of a minor bug (animation issue), which to my mind wouldn't be egregious enough to warrant a reload, or the install is wonky enough to make continuation inadvisable. I very nearly made the latter call after seeing the Blade Barrier issue anyways. And Aria's run already feels weird to me on account of the script bugs I ran into earlier (ex- Faldorn).

 

Lightning Bolt is a *very* weird spell when it comes to game mechanics. Probably 2x so when cast from an item.

Invisible Turning is likely possible - I've witnessed the same on many occasions. I haven't found a coherent pattern for it but - cleric's pre-cast Blade Barrier is often invisible, as are sequencered Fireshields (this happens very often on Rakshasa types - hurts immensly :angry: ).

For better or worse, Spell Revisions removes Spell Turning from the game so I can't be sure about Turning disc  (haven't seen those in a while...) - but invisible animations do happen. This is not install-specific; even on SCS-only install I saw  Bassilus ran an invisible Physical Mirror.

Anyhow - fwiw, you don't strike me as a cleric-ranger type. :)



#11913
Alesia_BH

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He was in a no-name random ambush (a City Alley) - the mage was in the corner and Magicken moved to point blank range (e.g. melee range). Certainly wouldn't call that a narrow corridor, but the walls weren't far away either. There may have been a horse cart nearby, the bolt may have ricocheted off that.

 

In my cases the lightning bolt definitely didn't bounce: it was created on a perpendicular and then travelled on a perpendicular. 

 

My first hypothesis to explain what happened in my case was that it had something to do with the corridor, since that was a commonality in both cases. I've been able to replicate the behavior outdoors and in the open, however.

 
I'm not sure what's going on, exactly. I can, however, confirm that it happens in both of my installs. As a consequence, I'm inclined to view it as a peculiar engine mechanic rather than a bug. I definitely don't see a reload as justified here.

 

Invisible Turning is likely possible - I've witnessed the same on many occasions. 

 

Yes. I've observed invisible Spell Turnings as well. That is a possibility. But I also didn't see the reflect animation. In addition, I had checked the battle record and did not notice Spell Turning on the pre-buff list. It's possible that I missed that line, but I'm usually pretty thorough. I'll acknowledge though that I wasn't really taking the encounter or the run very seriously, since the game already seemed broken to me on account of other anomalies. Additionally, the reflect animation could have been obscured by the bolt: they are roughly the same color.    
 
 

 

Anyhow - fwiw, you don't strike me as a cleric-ranger type.  :)

 

:P

 

How so? I'll acknowledge that I'm a lot more comfortable with arcane classes and thieves -especially since my break- but I've done well with druids, clerics, and rangers before. I think Aria and I would have gotten along eventually.

 

I'm actually considering starting another C/R. It wouldn't take too long to get back to where Aria was.

 

Best,

 

A.



#11914
Aasim

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How so? 

You just seem more "in-persona" with bards & rogues I guess. :)



#11915
Alesia_BH

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You just seem more "in-persona" with bards & rogues I guess. :)

 

You've figured out that I'm a secular humanist bohemian, huh?  :P

 

(But I travel a lot, have a background in ecology, and hike long distances so the ranger thing kind of fits.)

 

Best,

 

A.



#11916
Alesia_BH

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Nice work Blackraven! Go get Jon!

 

Best,

 

A.


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#11917
Aasim

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You've figured out that I'm a secular humanist bohemian, huh?  :P

Hahhaha...

I don't know what does that make me (I play only brutal melee fighters with one swash attempt - interestingly enough - he got the furthest!).... 

(My work are children with ADHD/Autism/Conduct Disorders). In free time, I bash heads with flails! :D


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#11918
Alesia_BH

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I don't know what does that make me. My work are children with ADHD/Autism/Conduct Disorders. In free time, I bash heads with flails! :D

 

That makes you a real life hero with a vibrant fantasy life. :)

 

Best,

 

A.


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#11919
Grond0

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@Alesia.  Sorry to see Aria's song ending.  For what it's worth I've seen that behaviour from lightning bolts in the past, which is one reason I very rarely use the spell.  Lightning seems rather dependent on distance.  My expectations of it are broadly: at middle ranges it will hit a target, then go through and potentially bounce back to hit you; at short range it will hit a target and dissipate without bouncing; at point blank range it may miss the target.  

 

My rationalisation for the miss behaviour is that you're essentially creating a line for the lightning bolt rather than just a point in space as with most spells.  If the target for your spell is actually already so close that the created line would intersect it the game engine has to shift the line from your intended point of aim in order to create the spell animation.



#11920
Grond0

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Rifft - dwarf swashbuckler (update 1)
 
In the dungeon Rifft made the mistake of attacking some duergar before getting all his equipment.  He killed one group easily enough, but when attacking another in the library found that a further bunch had generated on an encounter point he'd just passed through.  While running them around to find a place to hide it looked like 2 further lots had joined in - so even though he'd killed several of them he had at least a dozen chasing him when he eventually managed to hide (after failing in several previous attempts).
 
He then opened up the doors - divine wrath being useful there to ensure the radiant mephit didn't have the chance to use colour spray on him.
Spoiler
Going to the study he picked up some useful equipment, while disarming traps got him enough XP for level 12.  He now felt comfortable enough to kill all the duergar.  The ogre mage died in traps (those now do poison damage, so not much survives one of them), while the duergar mage was killed by a series of stealth shots.
 
I'd forgotten how much the cambion had been upgraded and the combination of haste for him and slow for Rifft, even partially offset by a potion of speed, was nasty.  Hide in shadows and teleport without error along with various damaging spells saw Rifft running desperately and it was fortunate that the cambion's THAC0 had not been upgraded with its other abilities.  However, Rifft still had to use 4 extra-healing potions before slow ran out (making it even more difficult for the cambion to hit) and Rifft gave it a dose of its own medicine.
Spoiler
 
The mephits in the elemental plane were a potential danger, so Rifft felt justified in laying a trail of 7 traps back from them - that proved enough to sort them out.  The respawning of the mephits in the portal room made traps of limited use and the ability of enemies to open doors meant it wasn't possible to use stealth to lock some of them in the side room.  However, divine might was used as crowd control to thin out the gated mephits while DUHM and a potion of speed meant the portals didn't last long - the radiant mephit didn't get the chance to try a color spray.
Spoiler
 
In this installation Ulvaryl is immune to +1 weapons, but she was taken to injured by the battlemage and then badly injured by a pre-laid trap and a potion of firebreath then finished her off
Spoiler
- the battlemage then helpfully ran into the firebreath to kill herself.  
Spoiler
The assassins died in 3 pre-laid traps to allow Rifft to leave the dungeon empty behind him.
Spoiler

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#11921
Blackraven

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Well done Grond0 with the difficult first hurdle that is chateau Irenicus.

Alesia, thank you :) Hopefully tomorrow...


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#11922
Alesia_BH

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Glad to see Rifft off to a good start Grond0!

 

Best,

 

A.



#11923
Alesia_BH

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@Alesia.  Sorry to see Aria's song ending.  For what it's worth I've seen that behaviour from lightning bolts in the past, which is one reason I very rarely use the spell. Lightning seems rather dependent on distance.  My expectations of it are broadly: at middle ranges it will hit a target, then go through and potentially bounce back to hit you; at short range it will hit a target and dissipate without bouncing; at point blank range it may miss the target.  

 

Noted. I too have avoided it due to fear of unpredictable behavior. In fact, I avoided it so much that the exact mechanics were foreign to me. I only tried it in this case because I liked the idea of using a ranger quest item in conjunction with clerical buffs and Harm. It was a stylistic choice. Fashion kills. :P

 

 My expectations of it are broadly: at middle ranges it will hit a target, then go through and potentially bounce back to hit you; at short range it will hit a target and dissipate without bouncing; at point blank range it may miss the target.  

 

Makes sense. That's basically what I found in my experiments.

 

My rationalisation for the miss behaviour is that you're essentially creating a line for the lightning bolt rather than just a point in space as with most spells.  If the target for your spell is actually already so close that the created line would intersect it the game engine has to shift the line from your intended point of aim in order to create the spell animation.

 

That's an interesting hypothesis. In my experiments I found that the Lightning Bolts would connect at short range sometimes. And when that happened, no line animation appeared. That would seem consistent with your hypothesis. Sometimes, the engine forces the animation at close range, leading to an angled shot. Other times, it supresses it, leading to a close range connect.

 

I think the plan at this point is to do some additional play testing with my BGII install. If and when I'm comfortable with it, I'll probably restart Aria in Candlekeep. I feel she deserves another shot.

 

Best,

 

A.



#11924
Grond0

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I think the plan at this point is to do some additional play testing with my BGII install. If and when I'm comfortable with it, I'll probably restart Aria in Candlekeep. I feel she deserves another shot.

Indubitably :).


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#11925
Aasim

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Go Grond0! Don't worry - you'll be wiping floors with Cambions soon enough :D